And don`t forget the VALUE OF A TORCH as a distress signal at night, coupled with a flashing LED which uses little energy and can be seen over long distances.

Always remember with the mobile if the signal is to weak for voice calls an SMS text message needs less signal and will often go when a call can`t be made.

Combined with the trusty whistle, if you are conscious it could get you out of trouble.

John

Interesting point John. I must admitt that the thoughts regarding the tag are more for pure identification i.e the poor sod goes missing in November on say the Geltsdale fells, which not a lot of people walk. In maybe June, what is left of a body is discovered by dog walker off the beaten track. id tag (dog tag)is found on remains. Saves some one a lot of bother.
Having said that if you do need urgent attention the body next to you with the mobile can give your details to the rescue HQ and save them a lot of trouble.
David H

If the thread had not expanded it would have been forgotten by now, (probably after the initial two posts in January) a tag is fine provided the details are acted on before it is to late, however they are next to useless in the event of a solo walker/runner, outdoor person, needing to summon emergency aid or a sranger coming across a person that needs assistance.

Therefore the need for an open discussion encompassing all aspects of identifying, who, where last seen, where now, etc a person is.


After 30 plus years running, walking, cycling, kayaking in wild places etc, the fundamental safety aspects and seriousness of of any delay in an emergency is always upermost in my mind.

I agree one should be able to express there thoughts and opinions on an open forum without the fear that you may offend anybody, after all how can you judge a strangers intentions from a few words posted on a forum.

However i do think that by listening and maybe applying several aspects from single posts (which on there own seem worthless and irrelevant to the original subject matter), a more satisfactory and far - reaching picture can be viewed.


Otherwise what is the point of a thread that gets two posts and disappears, in my opinion something as important as this should be kept on top.

All the best
John

Norman first of all I was a squadi and then a union and health and safty rep + LDWA Sec for too many years to take offence. Secondly we should be able to speak our minds with out fear of offending. You were right we had got off subject and a seperate thread should have been opened up.
David H
Just away to work out a bit of aggression in the gym.

Norman first of all I was a squadi and then a union and health and safty rep + LDWA Sec for too many years to take offence. Secondly we should be able to speak our minds with out fear of offending. You were right we had got off subject and a seperate thread should have been opened up.
David H
Just away to work out a bit of aggression in the gym.

David, sorry that I threw my teddy out of my pram last night!. Was just a bit tired when I wrote it. Realise you were not treating it irreverently but the conversation did appear at times to veer away from the subject matter. Apologies for any offence

It was and it is not a thing to treat lightly. I have always carried basic ID on me when I have been on the Fells or on a challange and feel very strongly that it should be a requirement that those that take part in challange walks do so. At the risk of repeating myself, this ID should be kept as simple and small as possible i.e an identity disk with your name blood group N.I number and maybe post code inscribed on it. Light Low cost Low tech trouble saver.
David H

I thought this thread was supposed to be about emergency contact information not "dibbers" for recording your checkpoint times. I was with Steve Clark who posted the original thread when Mick had his heart attack on Boxing Day.

Glad to Know there is at least one other grumpy old man David.

Had to do my own thing today as well.

The technology used for the Forecast seems to have been spot on, but i guess it was shunned by some in a bid to commune with nature.

Sorry i do not mean to be offensive but it is a fair example of how technology helps us.

John

I don?t detect any mythological Zen thinking in the majority of the LDWA (probably some will feel a spiritual up lift at finishing a gruelling challenge) that says we have to go back to the beginning of time, when we used the sun and stars to navigate and made sure we kept to our own territory. Today most of us use electronic gadgets of some sort for our challenge events, even if it is just a digital mapping system. So where is the harm in using a Dibber if it helps the organisers of an event?.
What I do detect is that this thread is going back to the thread on kit checks, when what seemed to emerge was that "if there is a rule that some thing is required to be carried then some one will find an excuse not to do so and do there best not to do so".
(put this posting down to a grumpy old man, who seen a nice walk cancelled due to weather)
David H

Take your point but a small transponder (dibber) is hardly rocket science,plus there are quite a lot of folk whose life has been saved by electronic gadgets.

Like it or not we all have to accept at some point that there is really no escape from technology right from the production of our technical clothing through to the emergency call to get injured folk out of bad situations.

Try as hard as we like we can not avoid the fact that we live in a technological age and that a lot of what we enjoy now would not be the same without the technological advances

All the best John

I think that many would object to dibbers on practical grounds, but the deeper feeling would have a philosophical basis. We participate in challenge events because of the physical challenge, but also to re-affirm the tie between ourselves and nature. Part of that is putting aside the comforts and technological aids of Western Society. To be <i>required</i> to carry an electronic gadget to facilitate check-ins would be anathema to some.

I'd used dibbers a few times on orienteering events with no problems, but was 'disqualified' from the Chevy Chase walk/run about 3 years ago, for 'not dibbing', even though I had. I didn't complain or anything, as I wasn't really bothered, but I noticed that various others had missed the same dib. I wondered if the thunderstorm on the day had affected it, and whether dibbers are not as infallible as they seem?

I tend to agree with David that we don't need a high tech solution to personal id but if someone has a mobile - why not use it to good advantage?

Re event organisation - I like to try to think outside the box but I'm quite happy to have my ideas shot down if they're not feasible.

The main body of my last posting was tongue in cheek, as the original posting was for personal I D and for this I do not think we need High Tech solutions I.E Mobile phones.
I know of the ?dibber? and have seen it in action on the Lakeland 100 and know how much it is used in orienteering. There is little doubt we will comply with the trend and see it used on our events but if I was a small event organiser (say 100 to 150 entry?s) looking two to three years in advance I would be worried at the possible costs involved and where I would find the auxiliary equipment and those people capable of handling it.
David H

Like John, I'm very strongly in favour of the use of the dibber and I don't think there are any insurmountable problems. I'm sure that any problems that might be thought of as difficult already occur in fellrunning events and I'm equally sure they've found a solution - no point in re-inventing the wheel if we can use their solution.

5 years down the line and we'll all be wondering how we ever managed without dibbers.

Hi garfield i knew you would know what i was talking about.

More thoughts on the subject on the dibber:-

Turn up at registration then you must rent a replacement for the event.

Lose a dibber then replacements will be available for a fee.

Lose one during an event then you do not show in results, and need to incur the cost of replacement dibber.

Lack of internet access no such thing even if somebody does not have it at home they will know somebody that does and if not it is available for a small charge in public library's and internet cafe`s throughout the country.

All the best john

By the way i best add that i have no connection with sport-ident other than an impressed user of there product

The "dibber" is more soberly known as a SportIdent (SI) key and is used in a great many events, mainly fell- & trail- running ones and events such as the LAMM. It was also used on the last Lake District 100 and this led to a number of issues being raised about their use in LDWA events, such as ability to read the data by checkpoint staff and other similar tasks.

John Sparshatt and I are visiting the SI people next week to talk about their use by the LDWA, and developments in the technology since that 100.

In a fantasy scenario every member would get an SI key when joining the LDWA, the chip number would be used online when booking in for an event and the dibber used at registration and at each checkpoint. Results posted on the internet that night. That scenario works, but what about members who leave their key behind or have lost it, or lose it en-route, or do not have internet access? We need to handle these exceptions. However, I still think, overall, if it works so well in the running world we can't be that different.

I'd really welcome Bothy-ite views on this.

Garfield

The cheap chip already exists and is known as a dibber which has our details recorded on it, used at lot of events with remote checkpoints.

Maybe we should all own one then at registration we just dib into the receiver our number and details are recorded, then at each subsequent checkpoint we again dib and our progress is recorded, the as we finish a printout of our progress can be made available.

Then should any mis hap befall anybody then the info is availiabe to rescue services etc via the dibber.

Maybe the LDWA could do a bulk purchase/member discount on dibbers it could even be an incentive for non members viewing calender details etc to take out membership of the LDWA.

Matthew from your postings I suspect that like myself You belong to the Contradictious O S group and not the Flat Earth Society. It is a good idea; if not essential to carry some form of simple but practical I.D on you when you go on a challenge walk or even out on the fells. Garfield as one of our more tech minded members, maybe you could devise a cheap ?chip? similar to what we have implanted in to our dogs (you see Matthew no simple tags for the family Pooches these days). One could then be implanted in to every member. So when we check in at walk H Q and pass through a check point the marshals simple scan us with one of those devises that the vets use and see our details. Think of the paper work this would save (or maybe generate). On the other hand maybe we should stick to what the miners used to use a simple brass tally on a string with our relevant personal details on it worn round our necks. As for mobiles yes I have one and yes I do carry it on the fells and on challenges but buried deep within my sack and SWITCHD OFF.
David H

Sounds like an excellent idea Tamsyn, and well worth knowing about.
I admit to being 'flat earth society' myself - and not even owning a mobile - but for those that do own one(the other 99% of the population!) it is well worth knowing about.

A dog tag seems a bit complicated to me, what if the dog runs of ???? Matt.

I have the ICE in my phone, as well as ID in my bumbag, but this reply is more about communications. If I injured myself on the hill I'd like to be able to ring for help (signal permitting). If my family had an emergency I'd like them to be able to contact me. It's the guy who pulls the trigger, not the gun. Garfield

Good idea Tamy but there are some of us that still do not carry mobiles on the hills.(probably because we have heard some birk useing one in what was till the mobile came a long a perfect setting for a snoze) Maybe I am a little old fashioned but I will stick to my dog tag. Simple cheap no batterys and with your personal blood group on very effective.
David H (maybe alias Victor Meldrew)

Does everyone also know about ICE on a mobile phone?

ICE stands for In Case of Emergency and is one of the first places emergency services will look for the best contact number on a mobile. It's a bit word-of-mouth (or word-of-email!) but certainly everyone I know has now done this. I have ICE-Dad and ICE-husband since they make more sense than putting names. Also, it can help if your welcome note contains your name.

A dog tag on your whistle with your NI number on one side and Post code and Telephone number on the other costs next to nothing, weighs nothing but could save your life and other people a lot of trouble.
David H

On Boxing Day Adrian Moody led a social walk for the BBN. At the very beginning one of our members Mick Masucci suffered a heart attack. Because Mick did not have any emergency contact details on him, it was only by luck through conversations in the past that we found out that Micks sister lived only 5 doors away from Micks house. This incident led Adrian Moody to write to the BBN's new chairman Nigel Schofield about what info we should maybe always carry with us on social walks or challenge events. This letter can be read on the BBN web site on the Emergency Contact Page. PLEASE READ IT, IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU NEXT. See you in Wales.