Cheers Nick may be just the reason i do it, well done on your run on the RRR. A splendid day out i thought, but i must say i saw quite a few feeling a little sorry for themselves.

John,

In events that require affiliation to UK Athletics to qualify for the cheaper registration, I always quote my running club rather than LDWA. I suspect there will be many LDWA members who did the same on the RRR.

Nick.

John i was only wondering why so many of us running club members, that are also LDWA members choose to register under there club name as opposed to the LDWA, when doing events that we no will be represented by both bodies of outdoor lovers.
One day i will might well be able to answer why i do it.

Cheers
John

Perhaps instead of saying that I don't see anything negative I should have said that I see it as very positive.
What I did not understand John was your comment about promoting running clubs over LDWA

Who said anything about runners entering events was a negative trend it certainly wasn`t me as far as im concerned it is an extremly healthy and positive way forward.

John

Agreed.

Some events attract club runners and then a bit of a snowballing effect takes place. Rombalds Stride is probably a good example and I am guessing that Trollers Trot will go the same way.

I don't see anything negative in that at all.

the Round rotherham is basically a running event run by a running club, which allows walkers and one of the checkpoints is run by a local LDWA branch

AS am I but then we have to ask why are we promoting our running club rather than the LDWA?

As ever stats can be misleading (she says being a statistician by trade!). I am a member of the LDWA (obviously to post on here) but I'm on the entry list as my running club. No doubt there'll be others like me.

I think the figures for this years ROUND ROTHERAM 50 miler make interesting reading :-

281 individual entries made up of :-

88 walkers
193 runners
27 relay teams

on the entry list i counted 39 showing LDWA Membership
157 various running/fitness clubs.
9 TRA club members

166 first timers and 53 ladies.

Maybe there is something to be learned here

Congratulations to Roy and all the people from East Lancs who were out last Saturday helping to make Wycoller Hoof such a success. Very pleased it will be run again next year. I took a few photos on the event which can be viewed at www.alangreenwood.biz/walkingpage I am afraid I was a bit shaky when I pressed the shutter button due to fatigue so please excuse any lack of focus. The final photo of Roy says it all about what organisers go through to put on events and it is very much appreciated so come on everyone-get your entry in earlier-otherwise we shall have no event organisers willing to make the effort.

e.g 20 quid for the three peaks race next year pre-entry and will be oversubscribed, i will be looking for another event most likely LDWA and probably entry on the day which will stiil be better value.

John

Thats why I joined, much cheaper,
but there again I am a tight yorkshire man

I don't think anybody would blame prices for the low number of entries on some events. There are plenty of reasons why people don't enter in advance (or at all) but overpricing is not one of them. Most non-LDWA events are either running events or charity walks and are priced far higher than our events. Meanwhile, we want non-members to see that doing only a handful of events each year makes membership worthwhile. Otherwise, why should they join? Members who join specifically to do challenge events should be able to benefit from lower prices.

Of course, it's up to each organiser what they choose to do. But if non-members are charged the same whether they enter in advance or on the day then they will probably enter on the day. Which brings us back to the pre-entries debate. Tony is right: £2 supplement for on-the-day and another £2 supplement for non-members is fair to everyone.

Catharine

Geoff,
Since the events listing was opened up 2 weeks ago the daily hit rate on that page of the website has doubled. We expect that, once effectively publicised, the LDP section of the website will also make many more people aware of the LDWA and our events. Over time I believe this will translate into increased event entries from which Local Groups will benefit.
It is not unreasonable to expect a quid pro quo where groups encourage entrants to become LDWA members by charging a differential along the lines of my earlier posting. Most do this already. All I am suggesting is that this differential is set at an appropriate and consistent level. Our events will remain amazing value for money.

Tony. At a time of decreasing numbers of entrants, how are you going to persuade organisers to voluntarily put up their prices (albeit for non-members only) with the sole aim of pushing people towards LDWA membership? You might get a few public-spirited LDWA groups to comply but that would be all.

I like that idea Tony

Roy,
It's good to hear that you had an acceptable number of entries and that you will be running the Wycoller Hoof again next year. A national committee meeting got in the way of me entering this time, but our date is later in October next year so I look forward to being there.

You raise an interesting point on entry fees. Now that non-members have full access to the events programme, we need to ensure that there is an incentive for entrants on our events to join the LDWA. I believe non-members should pay at least £2 extra , and entry on the day should also be at least £2 extra. A non-member entering on the day should therefore pay at least £4 more than a member entering in advance.

Firstly can I reiterate what Andy has said and thank everyone who took part in the Wycoller Hoof and also thank them for making it a most satisfying and rewarding day for all of us in the East Lancs group involved in staging it. The problem of late entries is a difficult one but I have to say they saved our event this year. Cost wise we ended up slightly better than break even and I doubt if the commitment would have been in our group to run it again with the numbers of pre event entries. One interesting point is our pricing structure. At £7 LDWA and £8 non LDWA in advance but £8 for everyone on the day there was no incentive at all for non LDWA people to enter in advance. In fact it was cheaper to enter on the day as they saved the cost of stamps. Not very intelligent on our part that. Interestingly some non LDWA entrants sent me £7 not £8 when entering in advance and I certainly wasn't going to write or make phone calls to chase £1. Maybe next year we simply charge all pre event entries £6.50 and all entrants on the day £8.50 but then we are likely to get compaints from LDWA members who pay their subs every year. I don't think there is a perfect solution and maybe it is up to each group to devise a strategy, each time they put on an event, that best meets the objectives they are striving to achieve.

I've got loads to do today, so really shouldn't be doing this now, but...

I haven?t completely thought this one out, so there are probably loads of reasons against it; would it encourage folk to pre-enter if they?re allowed to carry their entry forward to the following year if they can?t make it ? only if they let the organisers know of course?

Did you ask those who entered on the day why they hadn't pre-entered?

36 entries on the day out of 113? No wonder walk organisers are getting nervous about the viability of their events! As walkers it is surely in our interests to get our entries in early whenever possible to help the people who put so much effort in on out behalf. It not, there'll be no events left for us to do.

Geoff.

Thanks to everybody who came along to make the event a success. We had 113 entries including 36 entries on the day. With no shows we had 99 starters. I hope everybody enjoyed the day. We plan to make it an annual event. Thanks again, Andy

Many thanks Alan. I hope you are right about getting up to the hundred entries as that would make all the effort a number of people have put in worthwhile.

I have just read the postings on the Wycoller Hoof. I have entered and I am looking forward to it very much. The ingredients are all there, a new event, a good route with a route description to get you round and I have no doubt that East Lancs will look after us very well. Do not despair, Roy , I am sure you will get the 100+ entries you are seeking. The weather forecast looks favourable and we have been pushing the event as much as we can. Would hope it might become a fixture for a few years.
Carole and I organised our first event last year, Hebden Valleys Heritage, and we were very fortunate to get 240 entries. We put a lot of this down to the date selection. Scarborough Rock was discontinued so we stepped in and Mike Collins moved Rudston Rock to 2 weeks later for which we are eternally grateful. Secondly we pushed very hard to get people to come with threats, promises, bribery or relying on their goodwill. We shall have to see if they all come back next January 5th. You have to try every means possible to publicise your event. I am certain this correspondence will persuade one or two more to enter.

It is possible to advertise in TGO (The Great Outdoors) for free. I have put our Shap Event in there for the last three years - don't know if it produced any entrants.
They have an 'On the Horizon' Event Guide - email them at editorial@tgomagazine.co.uk

The Marlborough Downs Challenge is a good event, but it is organised by Marlborough Athletic Club and its entry fee is more in keeping with those charged for running events.

I did both the Pewsey and the MDC in 2004 and they do cover the same ground in places, though often from different directions. It was so wet on the Pewsey that year that it was difficult to tell what it was we were looking at through the driving rain.

The Pewsey will be the day after the Bath Beat next year, so that's another weekend taken care of then.

Back to the event which sparked off this thread - it's good to see that Wiltshire Group are promoting the rearranged Pewsey Downsaround on 20th April next year (35 or 26 miles, runners invited). Event details don't include entry fee though.

I also see that there's an independent event - the Marlborough Downs Challenge - over many of the same glorious acres on 17th May. 33 or 20 miles, and an entry fee of - wait for it - £14 - £18.

Since the cancelled event had an entry fee of £5 - £7 (pretty normal by LDWA standards), guess which one I'm most likely to enter. (No promises though, it might depend on there being a convenient hedge to sleep in the night before)

The Wycoller Hoof has now been added to the runnersworld website. We will see if it brings in any new entries at this late stage. I will add the Two crosses Circuit next week which and given the fact that it is three and a half months off we'll see what impact it as to our overall total entries.

Looking at a couple of new local events (non ldwa organised) that have been put on by organisations to promote my area for tourism, is quite interesting. Most successfull is the Pumlumon challenge. I have done all 3 and watched it grow from about 40 entries (aprox) in 2005 to 150 - 200ish (guestimate) this weekend. I would say one thing has done this - advertising and promotion. From the first year they were advertising in Trail + articles in magazine, I even did a live BBC radio interview for them last year. This national advertising brought in a lot of walkers (vast majority) who were NOT ldwa members, the sort of people who have never heard of the ldwa but want to do events.
We looked at advertising the Rhayader M.T. in Trail magazine, but the cost and commitment was just a little too much for a very small club and a single event. But why the national LDWA not pushing this sort of thing on our behalf, surely £1.00 on subscriptions would raise enough for a good advertising campaign? Why not have a monthly advert, 1/4 page, in walking magaazines, listing and detailing the next 10 challenge walks, or the next months? Why are there not monthly articles featuring some event? In my past experience, all magazines are desperate for copy and we should provide it, all the time.
Alternate I thought of, is perhaps 3 local groups for an area - say Wales, or Peak district, or South England - come together to take out a few adverts listing all their challenge and social walks for the year and share the advertising cost.
If we don't move forward and push our events, we shall lose them one by one. Meanwhile more non-ldwa events spring up, not all good, and push us out because they market and promote themselves better, whilst single small groups alone, have very little in the way of knowledge, time or finances on how to promote one annual event; but if we join forces we could do something. Matt.

Thanks Catharine. To be honest I thought we had publicised on Runners World website but I have just e-mailed our Secretary, Andy Griffin and asked if he will check and if there is nothing there to see if he can get something on tonight.Even if it is too late to attract additional entries on the day it is at least worth having a try so thanks again for the suggestion. If we do run this event again I am conscious that I have made a number of mistakes in terms of publicising it and as I have said before the many helpful comments in this forum have helped highlight them for me.

I know the idea of giving someone the horrendous task of monitoring events dates in order to avoid clashes has always (and quite rightly) been dismissed as a bad idea, since the patience and diplomacy required would be too much for most of us to handle.

However, I wonder if it would be possible to put some sort of calendar on the website where anyone could post their potential event dates for other organisers to see. I know it wouldn't be the end of all problems but at least organisers would see who else was thinking of using 'their date' and could pick up the phone to them to confirm it.

Roy, it's not too late to put your event on the Runner's World website. It takes about 10 mins and it's free. You never know, you might get a few entries to make it worthwhile.

Catharine

Having events clash is a problem for organisers and entrants - take a look at the w/end of 10/11th May next year on the Calendar, and then try and work out which one(s) to do, or how to defy space and time and do all!

As I get details of events I am loading them onto the web, so I would encourage organisers to take a look at what else is on around the same time and to discuss any clashes directly with other relevant groups - it is in the interests of all to split events that are within the same geographical region onto different weekends if possible.

The early Easter next year has disrupted the calendar quite a bit, with some groups going earlier, and others later than usual, so we have a number of clashes in the south of England.

Most organisers give a variety of contact details, but there are a few that still only have a snail mail address which means sending an SAE to get an entry form. I try to enter events in advance, but that level of forward planning defeats me (I never have stamps when I need them) and I would be inclined not to bother. When we are being encouraged to look at on-line entries, to not even have an e-mail contact seems a backward step.

(i'm off to see if I can find a stamp for my Long Mynd Hike entry)

Nick, good luck with the Snowgonia Marathon - it sounds a tad harder than Bottoms Up!, although perhaps you'll finish with cleaner feet?

Sue,
Bottoms Up! was a yearly favourite of mine, until last year when I discovered the Snowdownia Marathon. I have to apologise for doing the same again this year. I hope you get your numbers up by a month's time.
Nick 19655

I'm really looking forward to the event, and am amazed that more haven't entered - especially as it's new. Having said that, I haven't entered as many events myself this year, due partly to family commitments but also to travelling costs. I'm organising 'Bottom's Up' at the end of October and so far have only received 12 entries, when we need about 100 to 'break even'. Last year we got over 30 on the day, with a total of about 130, but look like being well short of that this year.

Thanks to Nick and Catharine for those encouraging words. We are mystified, particularly as we thought the 30 mile route was a bit of a waste of time as we thought most would opt for either the 17 mile or the 24 mile route. We have now scraped our way to 60 entries, 31 of whom have entered the 30 mile route and only 11 the 17 mile route. I am scratching my head in bewilderment particularly as the shorter walks prove so popular these days. We will issue a short feedback form to participants on the day to find out what we should have done differently or could have done better. I also keep reading through the many comments that have been made in this discussion forum and maybe the most telling one is that there is an over supply of events to satisfy the demand. With hindsight I think our Group's concerns about the need for us to compensate for events dropping off the programme were unfounded as there seem to be more than enough events already. I would also reiterate my previous comment that I think our organisation needs to be very careful not to be too stringent in deterring entries on the day. They are the lifeblood of some events and I would give anything to see at least 40 entries on the day to take us up to the 100 mark.

My heart goes out to Roy, too, though I'm not sure the lack of entrants is due to too many competing events in this case, which must make it even more galling for the organisers.
Rest assured I'll be there, barring any unforeseeen circumstances. I entered weeks ago and I'm looking forward to this new experience!
Nick 19655

Roy, my heart goes out to you. We all know how frustrating it is when all the good events come up on the same day and it must be even worse for the organisers. A friend of mine is doing your event and I would be too if I weren't marshalling on the Cotswold Challenge. I don't know if it's because it's the last weekend in September but it does seem to be a popular date. I hope it goes well and, if you run it next year, I'll do my best to come!
Catharine

We studied back editions of Strider before deciding a date for the Wycoller Hoof to try and make sure we did not clash with other established events in the region, but it doesn't appear to have helped our event as we have only 54 entries with just 10 days to go. Having heard so much about people leaving their entry until the last couple of weeks I have tried to remain optimistic but after just two entries in the first two days of this week I am feeling positively suicidal. I had visions of this becoming an annual event but that now looks fairly unlikely. It is such a shame as I believe we have a pretty good event lined up for 29 September and it is a pity so few people are going to enjoy the day. There has been much discussion about entries on the day and the logistical difficulties they can cause but I have got to the stage where I should welcome every entry on the day with open arms - the more the merrier. We perhaps need to accept that many people prefer to enter on the day. I think we need to be careful not to introduce stringent measures to discourage entries on the day as it is far better than the alternative ie they do not enter at all. We can pre order plenty of food and if entries on the day fail to materialise in the numbers hoped the many helpers on the event can have a bit of a party at the end of the day. Finally may I take this opportunity to thank everyone who has contributed to this discussion as there are many helpful pieces of advice for those organising challenge events. In the fairly unlikely event of the Wycoller Hoof being staged again there are certainly a number of points for us to pick up on which is extremely helpful.

Rebecca,
I'm not sure we would get many volunteers for the role, co-ordinating walk organisers is a bit like herding cats! But the point you make is a good one, particularly for the longer distance walks.
I have just received a copy of East Yorkshire's newsletter. They say that on the weekend of their Capability's Overview walk in May there were 22 walks in Strider, 10 in the North of England (including 10 challenge walks). They also mention that more than half of their 55 entries were on the day.
As Fiona says, we will be looking at this issue at a National committee meeting later in the month, and at the Local Groups meeting the following day.

Looking in the latest strider I noticed that the wellington boot 100k clashes with the woldsman 50m in April. Both fantastic events, and both I would have definately entered, even if they were on back to back weekends. Unfortunately I am now going to have to choose between them.

There aren't that many >50m events around, so it is such a a shame that there isn't some co-orination so these bigger events do not clash with each other.

Perhaps the LDWA could have a co-ordinator who could make sure that big events don't clash and other smaller events don't clash with other local walks / runs?

It seems so illogical to me to have the woldsman and the wellington on the same weekend.

Fiona - I've always done a lot of walking, including long distance trails and backpacking. In 2004, I got together a team of four for the Oxfam/Guerka Welfare Trust 100km Trailwalker event the following year and was looking around on the web for suitable circular walks to build up to the 100km. I can't remember exactly how I came across the LDWA but it was via the web in some way.

Many thanks for all your comments and suggestions.

We will be discussing these issues at the next Committee meeting. Whilst only a very few events have actually been cancelled, the problem of entrants leaving it to the last minute to enter does seem to be growing. On-line entry might be the answer, and might encourage more members onto the web site generally, but given that independent (i.e. non-LDWA group) event organisers are as likely to accept the SEF as LDWA groups, we may have some logistical problems in getting a system that is acceptable.

I think that getting the Future Events listing open to non-members will be a key milestone. Then we can direct people to the web page and they can see what's on offer.

Steve - how did you hear about us?

I know there is a vast potential membership amongst the running community, but identifying the walkers who are interested in going the extra mile (or 10, or more!) is more difficult.

Hear! Hear!

I'm a relative newcomer to the LDWA. This is mainly because I didn't find out about it until fairly recently, so I'd say good publicity is vital both for the organisation as a whole and for individual events. I know that for me it's been an amazing discovery to find all these wonderful events taking place, generally extremely well organised and astonishingly cheap by modern standards.

I usually like to walk alone but it's a real treat to be able to enter a planned route, knowing that there will be regular checkpoints with at least basic refreshments along the way and a lift back to the start if anything goes wrong. I'm sure there are lots more like me out there, so doing everything possible to reach them is crucial.

A few specific suggestions, most of which have already been mentioned but are worth repeating:

1. Advertise all events that are open to runners on runnersworld.co.uk at least

2. Accept online entries

3. Try to have a shorter route wherever possible

4. Make it clear that everyone is welcome (within whatever time limits are set for the event), from the real racers to slow coaches. Personally I often like to do a mix of running and walking, so I'm a fast walker/slow runner, but it took me a long time to realise that this was okay on LDWA events (I'm still not sure on some events). So be welcoming, and make people feel that they're not too slow or whatever.

5. Stick with it. I know from my running experience that a lot of events take a while to build up a critical mass, and just one cancellation can set you back massively.

6. Remember there are a lot of people like me who are very grateful for the huge unpaid effort that goes into these events. We don't express our appreciation often enough, but I know that I feel it every time I see the next checkpoint coming up ...

I experimented with online entries for the DDC a couple of years ago and we did get a few entries that way - all entrants had to do was click on the options and fill in their contact details. The drawback was that, at that time, we hadn't setup a Paypal account so cheques still had to be posted.

For those that did enter that way, it was relatively easy to setup the printout of their details so all they needed to do was sign the form on the day.

Sorry, that sentence above should have read "That's NOT too much is it?

I agree about Online entry system. Even if it is not a universal LDWA system. Really nothing more than local LDWA groups setting up a PayPal account to receive the entry fees. You may have to put the event price up by 50p to cover the Paypal fees, but that's too much is it? Everyone wants convenience in modern life. Not everyone has a cheque book with these online bank accounts, and well for some people going to the post office is just too much hassle. Sad but true. I try to enter in advance, but I don't always. I'd always enter in advance if the online entry was available.

A lot of good ideas have already been covered, but as a relatively new LDWA member (I joined last year) I've had a couple of thoughts which might be worth adding:

* A differential of only a couple of pounds isn't enough to put a lot of people off of registering on the day. I don't think money is usually much of an issue when people put off registering until the last minute; it's more likely to be uncertainties relating to work or family commitments.

* Making registration as _easy_ and quick as possible is important, especially for people with lots of work / family commitments. It would be wonderful to be able to register online. I know this is a little way off at the moment, but it's worth bearing in mind that many competing weekend activities can be booked at the click of a mouse. Finding pens and stamps and the rest takes just that little bit longer.... In some cases that will be just enough to tip the balance, especially for those of us who use computers a lot anyhow (e.g for work).

* It's definitely worth advertising as widely as possible; events who have links with another national organisation (e.g Montrail or the Rotary Club) definitely have an advantage

* & finally, I personally really appreciate the effort that many organisers make to put on a "short" route (i.e less than 20 miles). The distances might seem like less than a warm-up to hardened LDWA-ers, but 2 years ago I would have been shocked at the idea of covering more than about 10 miles in one go, so the shorter routes have definitely provided an essential route into the sport for me. Events which offer a choice of routes are also attractive because they mean we can travel to & from the event together, then I can potter round one of the shorter routes at a "civilised" (ok, slow!) pace while my beloved hurtles round one of the long ones! ;-)

(Helen Southall)

Then come and have a go at the Wycoller Hoof on 29 September. Three routes to choose from in a part of East Lancashire prettier than you could imagine. I committed a blunder by not putting in Strider that runners are welcome but we would love to see you all.

So, please come to have a go at A Coventry Way. We are very flexible regarding speed and start times. See my thread on this topic list!

I would probably have entered (in advance) for the Pewsey event, it was local(ish) and was in a very attractive area. Unfortunately it was walkers only and I am a (sort of) runner.

My walking partner and i have discussed this one with a number of other walkers over recent months and there is no one single answer. However, the following points do need noting:
1) There are far more events now than there used to be thus diluting the entry numbers.
2) This choice now means that people do not go back regardless every year if they are not happy with some aspect of the event - they vote with their feet!
3) A £2 premium is not going to encourage people to enter early. If the whole process is done by post, half of that is postage so the true premium is about 50p if you factor in the envelopes.
4) As an organisation we do not help ourselves by having the standard entry form, you just fill it in beforehand and go straight to the front of the entry on the day queue.
5) Likewise how many times do you go to "no entry on the day events" to find an entry on the day desk!
6) Do some events go overboard with checkpoints in expensive halls when a strategically placed car would do?
7) Are "Loop Walks" the way forward? Only one central hall/checkpoint, varying distances, fewer helpers and vastly reduced logistics.

I have a lot of sympathy with struggling and cancelled events, and am certain more will go that way. I would like to give you a breakdown of last years RMT entry, from which you may draw some conclusions.
It is an event we have been trying to re-build the last 3 years, and last year Montrail approached us out of the blue, being a runner I said we should take them on board.

On our 29 mile challenge event we had a grand total of 22 walkers (not all ldwa)!
There were 30 runners (mostly Montrail).
We also had a further 40 entries (28 on day) of runners & walkers on 13 & 18 mile course.

A total of 92 entries, numbers going up and a success for us.

The first conclusion is that as a walkers challenge event it is a failure (22 walkers). The ldwa should lose another event. The shorter courses have proved popular with local runners and walkers - but they are not the point of the 'challenge event' - and without any runners or Montrail involvement there would be no point in the effort of putting on a long course of any description.

This year Montrail wanted a long course, they have it, but we cannot risk putting any resources into accomodating walkers for 20 hours say. What would the walkers entry numbers be for 43 miles?? Unfortunately, the short courses and the runners are the groups 'bread and butter' and the long distance walkers are becoming rarer.

I know entries overall are well up again for Saturday, I know even more are Montrail runners (we had fantastic feedback from them last year) so the word gets about. I hope when the event is over we see more walkers having completed the 29 miler (and the few brave souls on the 43), otherwise what is the point?

If we lose Montrail, I would think very seriously about being involved in putting it on, unless numbers for the distance walk increase, there are a few new names this year - hopefully a spin off from the 100; we shall see.

So overall for many events - use it or lose it. Matt.

I'm not sure where the idea of barring runners came from, but it seems to me that a) runners participating in LDWA events is on the increase, b) some LDWA events could not survive without runners and c) the Montrail type of promotion, which is predominantly aimed at runner, is a great source of promotion for our events.

As an "in-betweenee", ie. half walk half run, I welcome events with runners-start times.

Summer events are often a problem, simply because many people are away, or are unsure of when they are taking their hols, so don't booking anything. Having said that, the Dovedale Dipper had over 350 entrants last weekend!
Garfield

I'm afraid I'm one of the 'last minute' as I often can't be confident my family/work commitments will mean I am available until 2 weeks before. I wasn't even aware there was a cut-off date. one way forward may be to have a 3-tier system: 1. early bird rate with significant saving, applications prior to cut-off date; 2. normal slight saving thereafter; 3. more expensive on the day rate. This works well with training courses and conferences. I also wonder if barring runners is such a good idea. I think I understand the rationale, but from what I have seen at other challenge events, these seem to attract quite a lot of runners. The bigger pool we fish in the better! C.

If runners are welcome on an event it can do no harm getting a mention on the FRA website runners world website and there are many other walking stroke/running websites out there where an event can be plugged,

Good Luck

John

I think, sadly, that this is the shape of things to come. People leave everything to the last minute these days and I know I'm as bad as the rest!

Still, I think there are things you can do to improve early entries:
- make sure there's a good differential between advance and on the day entries. E.g. £5 for entries in advance or £7 on the day.
- make sure you give a closing date for advance entries so that people get them in early enough for you to decide whether you have enough participants. If there's no closing date then you may still get advance entries in the final week - I personally think that should be discouraged.
- advertise your events (for free) outside the LDWA. e.g. on www.Timeoutdoors.com and on www.runnersworld.co.uk.
- use your LDWA group websites to give lots of information about the walk. e.g. total ascent and descent, route map, downloadable entry forms, pictures of the route, comments from walkers in previous years.
- advertise to runners as well as walkers. Tell them to start at a time to suit the checkpoint opening times and explain that it's a challenge, not a race. You will get more people this way and they are usually really pleased at the good value of LDWA events.

There are certain events that have no trouble filling up in advance (e.g. the Across Wales Walk and the Dorset Giant). I'd be interested to know what people think the reasons are for this. Is it partly because everyone wants to see other participants on an event (for the company? in case of getting lost?)?

Similar story for our Wycoller Hoof on 29 September. We do have 24 entries now but they have virtually dried up over the last two weeks. We hoped that by offering three routes in a surprisingly attractive part of East Lancashire not often used for either Challenge Events or social walks that we would attract a lot of interest. We also selected a headquarters easily accessible to people. There is of course still time for an upsurge of interest once people have returned from their summer holidays but we are not too optimistic at this stage. I would consider anything less than 100 participants on the event as simply not worth the effort many people will have put in to stage it. This is particularly relevant bearing in mind that the event is being staged at least 30 miles from where most of our active members live in the Bolton/Bury area. This is not a moan, simply an acceptance that challenge events do not seem as popular as they once were and we just have to acknowledge that fact. Peter Abbott spoke to me a day or two ago and said that he believes a new challenge walk takes five years to get established so maybe it's a question of hanging on in there. I can see there being an intersting debate at our first Group meeting following the Wycoller Hoof.

Very worrying. I am helping to organise A Coventry Way which will take place on Sun 2nd Sept. To date we have only 25 entries with lots of promises. But promises don't count when you don't know how many people to cater for and we still have to pay for the village hall, order T-shirts etc etc. So, come on everyone - please enter in advance.

Wiltshire group have just announced the cancellation of the Pewsey Downsaround challenge walk scheduled for 2nd September due to lack of entries, not the first event this year to suffer this fate. It?s entirely possible that later and on-the-day entries would have made the event viable. Last weekend?s Hanging Stone Leap had received only 50 entries with 3 weeks to go, but started with a respectable 125, of which 45 were entries on the day. Organisers, particularly of less well established events, have a difficult decision to make when there is only a trickle of early entries. Gambling on a rush of late entries may result in a large financial loss which a small group will find difficult to absorb, and helpers may well feel that they are putting in a lot of effort for little purpose.

I know that some people find it difficult to plan their lives far in advance, but if you know that you intend to take part, then do the organisers a favour and enter early, or risk more cancellations. Local groups are being encouraged to increase the price differential for on-the-day entry, but for most people the £ or two is insignificant and this in itself is unlikely to reverse the trend.

What do you think?