Thank`s Garfield.
John

I should report that John Sparshatt and I visited SportIdent early last year to discuss both current dibber technology and the online entry of events. The visit was very useful and forged the way for the use of the online entry system that a number of our events now use.

As for dibbers, John and I originally pondered their use for the Yoredale 100 but decided the timescale was too short. There have been developments in the technology for sending data back to HQ from remote devices, as well as methods of interrogating data gathered so far - both comments raised after the Lakeland 100. A great many events use this technology and I'm certain there are ways in which we can benefit, without losing any of our unique flavour.

I think I can answer all the queries raised below. However, I am to meet with Martin Stone - who runs SportIdent - again soon, once he has is back from running the LAMM (Lowe Alpine Mountain Marathon) and I'll then set a thread up with the findings for your discussion. Garfield

Me too
John

I would like to hear what our Chairman and people like Edith Moran and Ken Falconer and those that run events have to say about "dibbers", as I am pretty sure that they will have been discussed at National level, if only to see if they can cut out a lot of paper work.
David H

A Dibber by no means turns a LDWA event into a race, it would puely simplify the logistics, with the advantage of allowing everybody that use`s one to see just how the event went for them, and to enable them to analyze there walk if that is what they chose to do, bearing in mind many events do not publish result`s (quite Rightly)then to actually see you indivdual timings would be a bonus.
I Know i am not alone in taking an interest in how i perform on a challenge walk, even to the point of physically logging times at checkpoints etc, so that when i return the following year i can endeavor to improve, after all surely even though we are not racing we are CHALLENGING ourselves.

I really don't believe there are that many folk that enter challenge events purely for the distance my guess would be that the majority have a time goal in mind, for each checkpoint and an overall finish time, and to that end alone a print out soon after finishing, showing your times at the intermediate checkpoints, and overall time would be a boon and yet another memento to add to your badge and certificate.

John

I thought that dibbers and (quote) 'TIMINGS' were runners things and that we were the Long Distance WALKERS Association. Yes, runners are welcome on most if not all of our events, but we are essentially a walking organisation and it is the challenge of the 'Distance' rather than the speed that is relevant although for reasons of safety etc we obviously need cut off times. Nevertheless, our events are not races although, if people want to note their own finish time that should be a personal thing.
Denise

Plus all that would be required on entry forms would be the Dibber Number to allow the organisers access to the entrants info, got to be an advantage surely.
John

True however it would not take much effort to allow those folk to make there point, and to check them through in the traditional manner, and i am sure that after a few events watching the folk that have used a dibber receiving the Badge, certificate and the PRINTOUT of TIMINGS etc through the checkpoints then given time even they will see the benifits to themselves and marshals and accept that simple technological gizmo`s are to be welcomed and can actually make life simpler and can be an advantage.

Again just my thoughts.
John

Alas: Like I D cards and not smoking or useing a mobile phone while driving or only carrying part of the listed kit, some one will shout "personal choise" and refuse to use a "dibber" what ever is said.
David H

I for one would be more than happy to have my own personal dibber which could be used for multiple events, as to folk forgetting them i would have thought that once they became the norm it would be as automatic as carrying a compass, plus i would not have thought it would not be that hard to carry a few spare dibbers at registration, which could be issued at an additional fee to cover costs (+ a bit) folk would soon learn.

As to folk that wouldn`t use a dibber i thought the LDWA was striving to appeal to a younger group of potential members, now surely if we were seen to take advantage of technology then that could only help our cause, after all sticking a bit of plastic in a hole isn`t rocket science and well within the capabilities of even the most exhausted long distance walker, i would even go as far as to say a damned sight easier than a tally and self clip.

I have never looked at the costings for bulk purchase (even if the exist,but i have looked at individual purchase which does not seem overly expensive, and if a deal was could be struck for bulk purchase for the association i would be more than happy to have one.

Just my thoughts.
John

Nice idea implants, be good for those who forget mugs etc but rather nasty for the cleaners and I think the H&S brigade may be rather vocal.
Has any one realy costed out dibbers and how they might be brought in to use?.
David H

If each LDWA member was issued with a personal dibber, and each group was issued/purchased a set of readers, how would you manage the entrant on the day who "Forgot" to bring his dibber?
Explosive implants can't be forgotten!!!!

At what cost per person and per challange? If the LDWA can get get a bulk purchase of dibbers and readers then maybe it would be cost effective but bearing in mind that we would still need the paper and pen for those that would not use the dibbers it may not be viable
David H

No need for the implant a simple personalised dibber could hold all the relevant info and make logging etc very easy.
John

No need for a number or tally. An LDWA implant inserted under the scalp, with your membership number and password embedded in its circuits needs investigating.

This will have the added benefit for the hard working Membership Secretary to not having to remind members of their membership numbers and passwords. A scanner at each checkpoint will allow you to enter and enjoy the refreshments as well as counting you in and out. It could even log how many slices of chocolate cake each entrant consumes alerting HQ to the food supplies at each checkpoint along the route.
Logging each entrants food and drink intake and publishing this information in the results, e.g. J Bloggs completed the Yoredale 100 in 34h 17m consuming 5,400 calories, would cut the cost of future events by members not wanting to appear greedy and thus not eating too much.

Perhaps we could include GPS, to again alert HQ of any deviation from the route description, and help the sweep team locate any lost souls.

This implant will also let the member know his or her membership is due for renewal by delivering a small electric shock at suitable intervals until the cheque has been cashed.

No reminders will be sent, but the implants will self destruct, by the inclusion of a small explosive charge, on March 1.

Sounds like a plan to me.

Though I don't feel quite as repelled by the idea of wearing a number as Ken, I can't really see it as a practical prospect. It's one thing pinning one on your vest for a half-marathon, quite another having it crackling and rustling away under a rucksack over 30m. Which layer would you stick it on to? What happens when it rains?

The only advantage I can think of if they were big city marathon size numbers would be that they could have e.g. LDWA Yoredale 100 on them in big letters, which would not only give publicity but save answering all those questions you get from civilians on the way round ('Are you on an event?' 'Is it for charity?' 'How far have you got to go?' etc).

But quite honestly I can remember feeling slightly depressed even about having to hang a numbered tally round my neck for the 100, and ended up sticking it in my rucksack muttering, 'I am not a number, I am a free man. Er, woman.'

This is not a new problem - I'm aware of several instances in the past, notably on the Cleveland 100 in 1993 which was well over-subscribed and saw several people who did not get a place doing the walk self-supported over the same weekend. As you say, we can't stop people walking public paths (or in practice even private land with agreed access for the day).
Non-entrants helping themselves to checkpoint food is technically theft but I would have thought someone would need to be pretty bold to pretend they are on an event and do so. I would hope that vigilance on the part of those clipping tallies would be enough to prevent it. Heaven forbid wearing runner style numbers - it would need extra admin but more importantly it would affect the ethos of the event in a highly detrimental way and would certainly deter me from entering!

I know that this is a particular problem on the Beachy Head Marathon, which fills up quickly but it would seem that several people sneak in who haven't entered. There's nothing you can do to stop people from walking the route (unless it traverses private land) but it's a bit cheeky if they start eating all the food at checkpoints too. Most LDWA checkpoints have someone clipping tallies at the front so I'd have thought it would be hard to get round them if you hadn't entered.
Otherwise, perhaps it's worth a polite reminder at on the event website that non-entrants are not covered by insurance.
The ultimate answer might be to give all entrants runner-style numbers to wear on their T-shirts but then again that doesn't stop them on the Beachy Head Marathon.
Incidentally, how did you know there were non-entrants on your event?

Catharine

Susan,

I understand the problem and it will be particularly frustrating for event organisers.I trust the cheapskates did not attempt to be fed & watered as well!
Most events are carried out on public footpaths and we have no exclusive rights to be on these paths - they are open to all and this is the way it should be.
Route descriptions for a large number of walks are available from the LDWA website and as a member I am grateful for this.
We have a constant battle to raise the profile of the LDWA (I was unaware it existed until 12 months ago) and I would certainly not advocate adopting a more secretive approach to publicising our events.
On balance I would favour maintaining the present approach of freedom of information whilst accepting that this will occasionally rebound on us.Do we really want our actions influenced by a few people who are desperate to save a tenner?
The only thing that organisers can do is ensure that non entrants to the event do not get access to the benefits of the event (checkpoint support/food/drink/back up).
I for one will continue to pay my entry fee as I appreciate the support provided.

John

Good that event numbers are up and there are benefits from having a ceiling in that it helps planning. But there is the fall out as well as people join in who are not registered/entered. We had three non-entries using the Bala Challenge event (although numbers were not full).
It seems a better web page is bring out those of this bent. Has anyone else experienced this problem and how do you handle it?

This following quotation is from the RunFurther newsletter. RunFurther is the fell-running competition organised by Mark Hartell....
"1. Series Update
The spring weather may be finally arriving but it wasn't in evidence for the Manx and it certainly wasnt around for race 3, the Calderdale. 36 hours before the Manx there were considerable storms off the West Coast resulting the cancellation of some ferries and some truly epic journeys for a few people. As far as we know everyone made it to the start and conditions for the race were actually quite good although a little cold. As for the Calderdale - well, 2007 saw temperatures up to 24 degrees, this year it was more like 2.4 degrees with a couple of inches of snow over the tops and some sharp snow/hail showers. Coupled with a tougher finish from New Bridge and some wet conditions and it looked as though times would be slow. Matt Giles clearly hadn't heard that prediction though as he blasted around the course a full half-hour quicker than last year and well clear of the rest of the field. With two perfect 1000 point scores under his belt already he is clearly a serious contender for the series.

It was hugely satisfying being at Calderdale. Two years ago this was a race whose future was very uncertain. With under 30 runners on the long course, the organisers were doubtful about continuing the event but decided to become part of the Vasque series to see how it went. This eyar we had 126 registered for the longer race and almost 300 competing across all the categories. Competition was fierce, organisation was stepped up and worked really really well with good food at checkpoints at the finish. We are aware of a couple of issues with the later finishers and will work to ensure these are addressed for next year but overall - it was a brilliant, well attended, well organised event and a big thanks to you all for supporting the series and this event in good numbers.

Fellsman are already reporting that they might be up to 350 this year too - an increase of about 30% on last year - so this could be the start of something big. I'm biased (Mark Hartell) but personally, I think its the best race in the series so get yourself signed up."

There's something in the air! There does seem to be a connection between increased numbers on events and the numbers of runners participating. Garfield

For the Cloud Challenge we had to set the limit at 100 because of the limited parking available. However last year we only had 73 pre-entries and 16 further entries on the day. This is good news for event organisers as it makes it much easier to cater for, when you don't have to guess how many people will enter on the day.

So, the Cloud Challenge joins the growing list of events which are filling up before the event date - in this almost three weeks before!

This is wonderful news! (personally frustrating, since this is now the second event in succession which I've left until too late to enter)

What theories do people have as to why there is this apparent upsurge in our sport? Garfield